ROSEMARY ELLIS: I hear Thanksgiving is your favorite holiday — is that true?
INA GARTEN: I absolutely adore Thanksgiving. It's the only holiday I insist on making myself.
RE: Do you let anybody help you, or is it totally a solo thing?
IG: I got help one year. I decided it would be really fun for me; my husband, Jeffrey; and two friends, Frank and Stephen, to cook Thanksgiving dinner together. I got all the ingredients, I got everything ready, and I thought, I'll do the turkey, and everyone else can make a side dish, a pie, or something like that. I was so excited, thinking, This is going to be so much fun! Our guests arrived early...and then, at some point, the three guys ended up watching football. I had to make the entire Thanksgiving dinner! [Laughs]
RE: And I hope you gave them what-for for that.
IG: I didn't! Because I love them all. But I thought, I won't be doing that again. Which is fine, because I'm big on making things you can prepare in advance.
RE: Which is what Ina's Thanksgiving is all about.
IG: Right. For the string beans with shallots [see recipe, page 179], you blanch the string beans in advance, and just before dinner you sauté the shallots and heat the string beans up. The stuffing can be made ahead of time; the turkey can be seasoned. Almost everything can be done in advance — because you don't want to do anything when your guests are there. I really learned my lesson that time: It's better to do it yourself.
RE: Do you usually have a crowd, or do you keep it small?
IG: I like it really cozy. I never have more than six or eight people. The dishes are fairly consistent: Sometimes I make a truffle turkey, but the parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme version is my new favorite. That's wonderful. I always make herb and apple stuffing, but this time I decided to make it in advance to make it into bread pudding, put it in the refrigerator, and bake it before serving. It's so delicious!
And it's so important that you don't put the stuffing in the bird, where in order for the stuffing to get cooked you have to overcook the turkey. It's better to do it on the side. And then with the bread pudding, it's crusty on the top and creamy underneath. When it comes out of the bird, it's all soggy, and I like the crusty bits. There's always some kind of a potato, cranberry fruit preserve, anda pumpkin dessert. The pumpkin mousse parfaits are just great. People dip their fingers into the glass to get the last bit.
RE: That's a good sign. [Laughs] So what was Thanksgiving like when you were growing up?
IG: My mother would get up at four o'clock in the morning to put the turkey in. I have no idea why, but there was this notion that turkey had bacteria in it and you had to cook it for 12 hours. And it was dry as a bone! You had to dip the turkey in gravy just to be able to get it down. It turns out, a turkey cooks in two and a half hours, and it's delicious.
RE: What did you help your mother with? Did you learn to cook from her?
IG: My mother would never let me in the kitchen. I always wanted to cook, but I was never allowed to. Her view of the world was, "Cooking is my job, and studying is your job." I think, in retrospect, she didn't like the chaos. She was very orderly. It had to be her way. But as Jeffrey says, the minute we got married and I started cooking, it was like putting a flame to dry wood — I just loved it.
RE: Do you now make what your mother made? Was she a turkey-and-dressing girl?
IG: Actually, the pumpkin mousse tart was hers. It's one of the very few things that she made that I still make. That filling is what the parfaits are; I've sort of taken it to the next level. I would say most of her cooking was very spare; it was flavorful, but not voluptuous. She was a dietitian and never let us eat much sugar or many carbohydrates.
RE: But part of the concept of Thanksgiving is about abundance.
IG: Exactly. And I don't think she was a happy cook. She made the meal because it needed to be done, but I do it because I love cooking for the people I love. It didn't feel like that was a component for her, I'm sorry to say.
RE: So tell me, how did you come to love Thanksgiving so much?
IG: There is something about the tradition of it, and it's really about family. And in my case, because I don't have children, family includes friends.
RE: And how do you set the table? With a centerpiece?
IG: I always like to have flowers on the table. I think they make it look special. One of the things I like to do for Thanksgiving is have dinner in the kitchen, which is unusual. And I'll set a gorgeous table with a satin or embroidered cloth — something really special. But I think sometimes it's nice to have that coziness of Thanksgiving in the kitchen. I'll make a big buffet on the counter. Everything is on platters, and everyone helps themselves. And I love when they get up and get more.
RE: Do you play music during dinner?
IG: Always. I always have music. I love it to be very upbeat. When you're having drinks, I like something like Cesária évora. During dinner, I like the much more traditional — old Frank Sinatra and things like that.
RE: Are there special drinks that you serve?
IG: Always. I took a wine class recently — it was about pairing wine with food — and I realized that most wines are really meant to be consumed with the main course, as opposed to with hors d'oeuvres.
RE: Can I say that I'm fascinated that you're taking a class at this point about pairing wine with food?
IG: Oh, I don't really know that much about wine, and I really wanted to. It was absolutely fascinating. I prefer to serve a cocktail: a whiskey sour or a pomegranate Cosmopolitan would be great for Thanksgiving. Anything in a martini glass makes you feel like it's a party, doesn't it?
RE: Absolutely.
IG: And then I would serve a good red wine — a light red wine with turkey, like a chilled Chinon. Or, you know, a big white wine like...I'm not so good with wines...like a Chassagne-Montrachet.
RE: Sounds great. Can you share a little bit more about how you plan and prep the meal — how you avoid spending the whole day in the kitchen?
IG: The planning is everything. Deciding which dishes you're going to prepare can turn into the make-or-break decision five days later, when you actually serve the meal. So the first thing I'll do is make a list of what I'd like to make. And then I look at it and think, Do I really need seven vegetables?[Laughs] And I start crossing things off.
I'll decide upon the appetizers and the dessert; I think about the colors, the flavors, and the textures. If I'm doing string beans, I'll want something pureed with them, because it has a completely different color and texture. And then I'll want something that's sort of chunky or roasted crisp; for instance, the Brussels sprouts with lardons are completely different than the celery root — and-apple puree, which is completely different from the string beans and shallots. You want to make sure they all balance each other well.
The next thing I do is think about how many dishes on that menu have to be made in the moment. And if anything has to be made right before serving dinner, I take it off the list or find a substitute. The third thing I do is a schedule of how I'm going to get the meal on the table. Not Thanksgiving Day, but before I've gone shopping.
RE: So you'll go hour by hour?
IG: Even minute by minute!
RE: Wow. Please give me an example.
IG: I'll do a schedule saying, "I want to serve dinner at six o'clock." I'll work backward. The turkey has to go into the oven and cook for two and a half hours, and it has to rest for half an hour. I'll write, "3:00: Put the turkey in. 2:30: Turn the oven on." And then I'll figure out: If I only have one oven, what am I going to do about it? Can I make a gratin in the oven if I have a turkey in the oven? No, that's out. But I can make the string beans with shallots, because that's on top of the stove. And I can make a celery root — and-apple puree, because that's on top of the stove. So it's really important to figure out what your resources are and what you want to make before you go shopping, to figure out if you can do it.
RE: Tell me more about worrying about what will fit into the oven at one time.
IG: It's interesting. I renovated my house kitchen about two years ago. And I ordered a new stove — I'd had the other stove for 20 years. Then the new one arrived, and I thought, Oh, it's got one big oven and one tiny oven. And the big oven is great, but the tiny oven isn't the second oven. It's too small. All of a sudden I realized I really only had one oven, and I was going to go exchange it when I thought, It's a very good discipline for me, because most people in America really only have one oven. And so I kept it.
Next:
RE: On the topic of ovens and Thanksgiving, what's your secret to keeping the turkey juicy?
IG: There are a couple of secrets. A friend of mine who writes cookbooks knows almost everything about turkey, and I said to her, "What's the secret?" She said that in contests to see who could make the moistest, most delicious turkey, the same bird won every single year.
RE: And?
IG: And the answer is, a kosher turkey is the one that wins, because it's already salted. You season it and put it in the oven, you don't baste it, and you don't peek.The skin stays crisp; it gets nice and browned.
RE: You could put your herb butter under the skin.
IG: Yes, it really helps keep it moist.
RE: And makes it taste even better. Do you do gravy?
IG: You know what I do with gravy? I do it in advance. Every year, I save the drippings from the turkey in the freezer, and then I defrost them a couple of days before Thanksgiving, and I make the gravy from those drippings. That way, when the turkey comes out, you're not scrambling to make the gravy.
RE: Which is what so many of us do, year after year. That's really a great tip! Now, of all these Thanksgiving dishes, what's your favorite?
IG: I like the celery root — and-apple puree. It's wintry and homey, but with the volume turned up. It's more delicious than mashed potatoes.
RE: What about your husband — what's his favorite?
IG: Oh, he likes anything I make. [Laughs] He's easy.I made him a cup of tea once, and he said, "Oh, this is the best tea I've ever had." I was like, "It's a tea bag and hot water!" But if somebody who loves you makes it, you always think it's delicious.
RE: If you were invited to someone else's house for the holidays, what would you bring, and why?
IG: I try not to interfere with somebody's meal. Because if you bring something and it doesn't go with the dinner, they feel like they have to serve it. I would normally bring homemade granola and some great coffee for breakfast the next day. You know what I love to bring? Fran's Salted Caramels; they go with any meal.
RE: Or between meals.
IG: Oh — I realize I have one other tip, one other thing I love to do for Thanksgiving. It makes it a little more difficult, but as long as you're making one of something, you can make two. You can double it. If somebody comes to my house for Thanksgiving, they're missing one of the great things about Thanksgiving, which is leftovers.
RE: So let's talk about leftovers.
IG: I always make twice as much as I need, and then I pack up the leftovers so everybody gets to take some home.
RE: That's so thoughtful.
IG: You know, I remember at Barefoot Contessa [Ina's former gourmet store in East Hampton, NY], on Friday we sold as much Thanksgiving dinner as we did on Thursday, because everybody who had gone to somebody else's house wanted turkey sandwiches with cranberry sauce the next day. So I always make sure that everybody has little bags with leftovers to take with them.
RE: That's great. That's the best party favor I've ever heard of. Any other clever ideas or shortcuts?
IG: I think the best shortcut is to choose really simple recipes. Because I think you can make simple recipes that are as delicious as complicated ones. There's nothing on this menu that takes more than 30 minutes to make. You can get bogged down in a recipe that's got a lot of steps and a million ingredients, and it takes all day to make. And then you realize, you've just got one dish. For Thanksgiving, you want an abundance of choices, and so you want dishes that you can put together really quickly, but that doesn't mean less flavor.
RE: No, especially not if you get great ingredients. So once your guests arrive, are you able to relax and enjoy the holiday?
IG: My goal is that everything is done before guests arrive, or is in the oven. The only thing that might happen is when the turkey comes out and it's resting for 20 minutes or a half hour, things that I've made beforehand are going to go in the oven to be heated. Hopefully, by the time everybody arrives it's pretty much done. And everything's served buffet style. And I do ask people to help with that: I'll put somebody in charge of serving wine, and I'll ask somebody to help platter a couple of things.
RE: What was your most memorable Thanksgiving?
IG: You're going to be surprised when I tell you. When Jeffrey and I first married, we lived in Washington, DC. Well, not when we were first married, but after a few years. We would take Thanksgiving Day — it was always a gorgeous, autumnal day — and the two of us would walk all over Washington. We would take an eight-hour walk together, and we would stop at some restaurant in Georgetown and have dinner. And I felt like it was just the two of us. It was always a lovely day, and I think we did that several years in a row. It was a little intimate Thanksgiving together.
RE: With no cooking at all. So ironic. Did you ever have a disastrous Thanksgiving?
IG: Everybody's had a disastrous Thanksgiving! [Laughs] I'm sure I've had surprises, like the turkey not being done. It's just the nature of cooking. You want it to be exactly two and a half hours, and it just isn't. You have to make dishes that you're really familiar with but be flexible because maybe it will be 15 minutes late.
RE: A little flexibility: That's the key to a happy Thanksgiving and a happy life. One last question: What Thanksgiving is about, obviously, beyond the good friends and the good food, is being thankful. What are you most thankful for?
IG: I don't know where to start. My husband, Jeffrey. I think that's the first 10 things. You know, he's been such an incredible support. I'm thankful for my friends; I have wonderful, deeply interesting, soul-satisfying friends. I'm thankful for my garden — I love my garden. I love East Hampton. I can't believe I get to cook for a living; it just doesn't get any better than that.
RE: That's a full and happy life. Thank you so much for your time — and for these wonderful recipes.
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